Re: gEDA: user interface issues

[Aaron K <aaron-at-NOSPAMlimitedslip_dot_net>]

Aside from my comments in previous emails, more below.

David Carr wrote:
> Aaron,
> 
>    First of all, thanks for your comments, we appreciate the time that 
> you've taken to systematically articulate your concerns.  When I first 
> started using geda, I was moving from CadSoft's Eaglecad which functions 
> like most conventional EDA software.  Initially I was so frustrated by 
> geda that I quickly abandoned it in search of other alternatives, so I 
> can understand where you're coming from.

I almost abandonded it has well, because of similar frustrations, which 
let me to instead email them, so if nothing else, everyone would know why.

 > However, I was unable to find
> anything with near the capabilities of gschem/PCB at a price that I as a 
> student could afford.  Furthermore, I was reluctant to pay hundreds or 
> thousands of dollars to lock all of my designs into a proprietary 
> format.  So here I am...

Same here, and I currently approach this from a hobbyist point of view 
(though that may change in the near future).

>    All of that said, back to your concerns.  As someone who has become 
> proficient at using gschem and to some extent PCB, its easy to fall into 
> the trap of just saying "the program is easy to use---you just don't how 
> to use it".  After all, I am familiar with the "strange" two letter 
> shortcuts, etc.  But I think that only considering the view of the 
> experienced user is as foolish as only considering the view of the brand 
> new user.
> 
>> What I've noticed so far that would be nice to change:
>> - Don't use the middle button for hardly anything. Number of reasons 
>> here, one of which is linux typically uses this to paste from the 
>> clipboard/kill ring, which would be acceptable. Also, if the 
>> application was to be run under windows using Cygwin, or whatever, it 
>> wouldn't be usable.
> 
> 
> I'm a bit torn here.  On one hand, using the middle button gives rapid 
> access to frequently used functionality.  However, I use a scroll wheel 
> mouse which makes it hard to click the middle button and as a result I 
> find myself wincing when I do have to middle click.  I'm not sure that 
> portability is an issue though because I'm pretty sure that my mouse 
> buttons work the same under linux and windows.
> 
>> - Menu options that have command shortcuts should use the form 
>> Ctrl+<key> instead of a one-two letter combination.
> 
> 
> gschem is a bit odd in its use of two letter shortcuts.  At first, I too 
> found them unusual but I've come to appreciate them.  For me anyway, its 
> more comfortable to press "v" and then "r" to redraw than to twist my 
> hand to the left to press and hold "ctrl" and then hit "r".
> Its also worth noting here that all of gschem's key/mouse bindings are 
> completely reconfigurable.  If you don't like the way they are, you can 
> easily change them.  Perhaps we should create a "conventional EDA" 
> binding set that could be easily loaded by those who want it.  This 
> pertains to the middle button issue as well.
> 
>> - Create standard operating cut/copy/paste (would probably eliminate 
>> the buffer menu and the 'copy mode' type usage).
> 
> 
> I assume this comment applies to PCB and not gschem.  I agree that PCB 
> would be well served by an overhaul in the copy-paste area.  I know that 
> DJ Delorie is doing work to separate the PCB GUI from the backend so 
> that we can create alternative GUIs.  This would probably be a good 
> place to make those changes.

At this point, I've only looked at gschem.

> 
>> - Though not critical, I did notice it happening frequently: I would 
>> move or resize a component or net, and I'd have to manually go to 
>> View/Redraw to redraw a missing line or something. This option should 
>> not need to exist at all.
> 
> 
> I agree here as well, we should not need to have to manually redraw.  
> The right thing to do is fix all of the drawing code so that things 
> never get into a state where a manual redraw is necessary.  
> Unfortunately, that is much easier said than done but I think should be 
> a development priority nonetheless.  In the meantime, the "vr" shortcut 
> is much more convenient that using the menu.
> 
>> - I found the fairly simple act of moving components and nets 
>> difficult. This was primarily due to having to use the middle button. 
>> These types of operations should be seamless to anyone that has used a 
>> drawing program before.
> 
> 
> It would be nice to be able to drag components by clicking and dragging 
> with the left mouse button or by dragging a selection box around them 
> and then dragging the selection (all with the left button).  I'm not 
> sure if this behavior is possible by remapping the mouse actions or if 
> it requires code changes.  As a tip, I find it much easier to move 
> things by highlighting them and then pressing the "m" key.  Just click 
> the left button to drop them, no middle button required.
> 
>>
>> - If menu options indicate some current state (like, Options/Net 
>> Rubber Band), they should change depending on the state, for example, 
>> if the option is on, add a check mark next to the option.
> 
> 
> Good idea, and not too difficult to implement either.
> 
>>
>> These are a few of the primary things I noticed that I think can 
>> easily turn people away from this program, and if fixed, will have a 
>> great value. Depending on how my search for other EDA tools goes, I 
>> may download the source and start fixing some of these myself. 
> 
> 
> We always welcome code contributions.  Welcome to the list.
> 
> -David Carr
> gEDA user / code piddler